AR15.Com Archives
 John Locke's Five Criteria For Revolution
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:22:25 AM EST
We have the greatest document ever written in our Constitution (that is trampled daily by our politicians accodring to my speaking one night with WABC's Mark Levin of the Landmark legal Foundation) and the Framers read everything they could to write it. They wanted to know what elements of the past had worked, and what caused nations to fail. The words were not conceived in a vacuum.

So here's John Locke's 5 Criteria for when the people must revolt. How many can you count and how many are on the cusp?

"This list of grievances is carefully fashioned to invoke
the five criteria given by John Locke to demonstrate that a
government is tyrannical and revolution is justified" - "A
History of Freedom", taught by Rufus J, Fears, U of Oklahoma:

1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law

2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people


Walsh

P.S. That course can be seen by searching for "The Great Courses" of which al are taught by the professors most of us which we had. Audio, CD, or DVD, all increasing in cost.
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Favre44  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:27:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:
We have the greatest document ever written in our Constitution (that is trampled daily by our politicians accodring to my speaking one night with WABC's Mark Levin of the Landmark legal Foundation) and the Framers read everything they could to write it. They wanted to know what elemenst of the past had worked, and what caused nations to fail. The words were not conceived in a vacuum.

So here's John Locke's 5 Criteria for when the people must revolt. How many can you count and how many are on the cusp?

"This list of grievances is carefully fashioned to invoke
the five criteria given by John Locke to demonstrate that a
government is tyrannical and revolution is justified" - "A
History of Freedom", taught by Rufus J, Fears, U of Oklahoma:

1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law

2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people


Walsh


I picked bush did the best anyone could

After all, its the lesser of two evils again

dedfella  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:30:05 AM EST
an extremely broad subject

an extremely general poll


I may just be too simple minded to participate in this discussion

I did vote in the poll though (answer #2)
RikWriter  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:31:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:
How many can you count and how many are on the cusp?


Maybe one on the cusp. Maybe.
BenDover  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:34:22 AM EST
In effect, we do revolt every time we cast a vote in an election to unseat an encumbent.

If you don't like the choices, you're free to run.
santanatwo  [Member]
2/8/2008 5:35:11 AM EST
I think where bush realy failed, was he did not explain himself fully, or show the real evidence for his wars

dedfella  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:35:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Walsh:
How many can you count and how many are on the cusp?


Maybe one on the cusp. Maybe.


ok

my thoughts also

I honestly thought I might be missing something

but in those 5 "points" I do not see a great likeness

I could name 20 other flaws/shortcomings etc with our government but those 5 just don't seem to be prevalent at this point
pdsarge  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:36:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By dedfella:
an extremely broad subject

an extremely general poll


I may just be too simple minded to participate in this discussion

I did vote in the poll though (answer #2)


+1
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:36:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Favre44:

I picked Bush did the best anyone could

After all, its the lesser of two evils again



I'm quite the conservative, but a moderate on some issues. I have read two books on the Bush family by republican Kevin Philips: "American Dynasty" and "American Theocracy". The latter showed that Karl Rove said "If you say you were saved by Jesus you'll get the evangelicals who didn't vote last time around". When you think of decisions made, they are filtered through what is best for "Bush, Inc." If you thought LBJ brought backroom Texas politics to DC, he had nothing on Bush. He is a liberal and as Peggy Noonan wrote, he and his father squanderd the Reagan legacy. How we got Alito and Roberts remains a mystery. We almost got Harriet Miers! Bush is a weak man and has been a weak president. I had it when he let 8 Marines rot in cells in Pendleton because of that turd wrapped in skin called Murtha, and the two border agents going to jail because the prosecutor is a long-time Bush family friend. Yes, Gore was a clear disaster [who made $100 million off of global warming in 2007!], but there's room for thought on how the republicans would be positioned, and opposed him, had Kerry won.

Walsh
dedfella  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:38:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By Favre44:

I picked Bush did the best anyone could

After all, its the lesser of two evils again



I'm quite the conservative, but a moderate on some issues. I have read two books on the Bush family by republican Kevin Philips: "American Dynasty" and "American Theocracy". The latter showed that Karl Rove said "If you say you were saved by Jesus you'll get the evangelicals who didn't vote last time around". When you think of decisions made, they are filtered through what is best for "Bush, Inc." If you thought LBJ brought backroom Texas politics to DC, he had nothing on Bush. He is a liberal and as Peggy Noonan wrote, he and his father squanderd the Reagan legacy. How we got Alito and Roberts remains a mystery. We almost got Harriet Miers! Bush is a weak man and has been a weak president. I had it when he let 8 Marines rot in cells in Pendleton because of that turd wrapped in skin called Murtha, and the two border agents going to jail because the prosecutor is a long-time Bush family friend. Yes, Gore was a clear disaster [who made $100 million off of global warming in 2007!], but there's room for thought on how the republicans would be positioned, and opposed him, had Kerry won.

Walsh


ah

that certainly clears things up

macman37  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:38:54 AM EST
Dubya did the best he - or anyone else - could at the time.

I don't see criteria for revolution being met yet... But this is good reading.
CPO  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:40:19 AM EST
Americans get the government they deserve.

Don't blame it on Bush.

If the United States of America is no longer the shining light of liberty, righteousness and good it once was then there is only one people to blame.

Look in the mirror...

CPO SWCC US Navy (Retired)
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:40:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
In effect, we do revolt every time we cast a vote in an election to unseat an encumbent.

If you don't like the choices, you're free to run.


No, you're not at all "free" to run. We just had a major debacle over replacing a sheriff in Charlotte, NC. To run for that office in a general election the starting number is $100,000. That comes from a campaign manager who has been in this "game" here for 12 years.

To think anyone can grow up to be president has been a myth told to many of us since grade school.

Walsh.
BenDover  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:42:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
In effect, we do revolt every time we cast a vote in an election to unseat an encumbent.

If you don't like the choices, you're free to run.


No, you're not at all "free" to run. We just had a major debacle over replacing a sheriff in Charlotte, NC. To run for that office in a general election the starting number is $100,000. That comes from a campaign manager who has been in this "game" here for 12 years.

To think anyone can grow up to be president has been a myth told to many of us since grade school.

Walsh.


I could raise $100,000 in 24 hours if I chose to run for a significan regional public office.

It's all in the marketing package.
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:43:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:
Dubya did the best he - or anyone else - could at the time.

I don't see criteria for revolution being met yet... But this is good reading.


That 12 hour course on "The History of Freedom" and the thinkers that made it happen is outstanding, as are all of them from "The Great Courses" that all come with a 100% money back guarantee.

Walsh
dedfella  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:44:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
In effect, we do revolt every time we cast a vote in an election to unseat an encumbent.

If you don't like the choices, you're free to run.


No, you're not at all "free" to run. We just had a major debacle over replacing a sheriff in Charlotte, NC. To run for that office in a general election the starting number is $100,000. That comes from a campaign manager who has been in this "game" here for 12 years.

To think anyone can grow up to be president has been a myth told to many of us since grade school.

Walsh.


I could raise $100,000 in 24 hours if I chose to run for a significan regional public office.

It's all in the marketing package.


+1
NoVaGator  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:50:25 AM EST
what the heck does the poll have to do with the post?

Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:50:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:

I could raise $100,000 in 24 hours if I chose to run for a significan regional public office.

It's all in the marketing package.


But how many favors would you owe to your donors? Or are you an exception and people just give away money and expect nothing because they like you? I've seen the inside of a number of state wide campaigns. Large, anonymous donations occur....NEVER! With every large donation comes the expectation of a return on investment.

Walsh
sherrick13  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:57:14 AM EST
I fault Bush for 3 things.

Immigration by far is #1.

Letting spending go crazy. He should have gone veto crazy.

Not making sure Justice put into everybody's head that firearm ownership is an individual right. He left it up to whoever was AG.

Other than those he did pretty damn good.
dedfella  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:00:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
what the heck does the poll have to do with the post?



I think if you can tie them together logically (or not) it is supposed to signal the "time is right" to take to the streets
sherrick13  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:01:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
In effect, we do revolt every time we cast a vote in an election to unseat an encumbent.

If you don't like the choices, you're free to run.


No, you're not at all "free" to run. We just had a major debacle over replacing a sheriff in Charlotte, NC. To run for that office in a general election the starting number is $100,000. That comes from a campaign manager who has been in this "game" here for 12 years.

To think anyone can grow up to be president has been a myth told to many of us since grade school.

Walsh.


Are you kidding? 2 out of our last 4 Presidents were born poor. And Carter was just upper middle class. And Ford was poor also once his Mom ran away with him from his abusive father.

Anybody CAN become President. You have to become successful first but you don't have to be born into it.
BenDover  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:02:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By BenDover:

I could raise $100,000 in 24 hours if I chose to run for a significan regional public office.

It's all in the marketing package.


But how many favors would you owe to your donors? Or are you an exception and people just give away money and expect nothing because they like you? I've seen the inside of a number of state wide campaigns. Large, anonymous donations occur....NEVER! With every large donation comes the expectation of a return on investment.

Walsh


That's correct.

That's why it's called "politics". There is no utopian republic, where representatives are determined in a vacuum by their personal merits and ability to lead. Highly capable people are already gainfully employed in the private sector.
NoVaGator  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:04:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By dedfella:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
what the heck does the poll have to do with the post?



I think if you can tie them together logically (or not) it is supposed to signal the "time is right" to take to the streets


In that case, the key "missing element" is the fact that Bush is not eligible to be re-elected, nor do I expect him to "cancel" the election.

Regardless, I don't see any of the 5 criteria being fulfilled.
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:13:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Favre44:

I picked bush did the best anyone could



I would disagree that h did the best anyone could. The war in the Middle East will have been fought for nothing if a bomb can be brought in from our southern borders and detonated. I've never seen in history where a nation at war did not secure its borders. All Bush had to do was sign an Executive Order that read "America's Borders are to be secured immediately". He chose not to. For that, unless some miracle of a secular Iraq materializes, Bush will go down in history on par with Carter.

Bush is not handing the conservative mantle to the next republican as Reagan did as there is no mantle to deliver. I don't think a Hillary Clinton will destroy America as she will be opposed strenuously. I do think a Barrack Hussein Obama could cause us irreparable harm. That is if the Clinton's allow a construct delivered to make Hillary look like a moderate actually makes it to the finals. Anyone else seen that list of those around Clinton who assumed room temperature? I don't think Obama should b walking through any hotel kitchens.

Walsh
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:21:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By CPO:
Americans get the government they deserve.


Close..."collectively" Americans get the government they deserve. I work too hard to get THIS government.



Don't blame it on Bush.


So the buck stops nowhere on his violation of Article IV Section 4 and his immigration desires to tell the Mexican people "help is on the way"?



If the United States of America is no longer the shining light of liberty, righteousness and good it once was then there is only one people to blame.


Again, not necessarily so. De Tocqueville thought that the American politicians feared the people and would do their bidding as they lived amongst them. They have removed themselvs from us. One of Ckinton's tax increases has the phone calls running at 1000 to 1 against. Later, he said he might have raised taxes a bit too much. Only when they are running for election and it might be close do they listen. So we have an oliarchy now, and not a representative republic.



Look in the mirror...



Most Americans should. I personally have no need to. My time with my family suffers over the amount of time I spend attending meeting and writing to elected officials as well as calling.

Walsh
sherrick13  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:27:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By Favre44:

I picked bush did the best anyone could



I would disagree that h did the best anyone could. The war in the Middle East will have been fought for nothing if a bomb can be brought in from our southern borders and detonated. I've never seen in history where a nation at war did not secure its borders. All Bush had to do was sign an Executive Order that read "America's Borders are to be secured immediately". He chose not to. For that, unless some miracle of a secular Iraq materializes, Bush will go down in history on par with Carter.

Bush is not handing the conservative mantle to the next republican as Reagan did as there is no mantle to deliver. I don't think a Hillary Clinton will destroy America as she will be opposed strenuously. I do think a Barrack Hussein Obama could cause is irreparable harm. That is if the Clinton's allow a construct delivered to make Hillary look like a moderate actually makes it to the finals. Anyone else seen that list of those around Clinton who assumed room temperature? I don't think Obama should b walking through any hotel kitchens.

Walsh


Agree 100% with the red.

I do think Bush will be looking at more favorable than Carter. It will take a generation though.
Meadowmuffin  [Member]
2/8/2008 6:31:39 AM EST
I voted 2. Bush was the obvious choice over gore. Gore would have made clinton look like a fond memory. To think that the man has made millions off of a scientific farce called global warming. Never mind the long term damage that he has done to the scientific process in this country and around the world, by politicizing science. Science is supposed to be abstract, scholorly, and above the political process. Not any more. The general perception is that our universities are increasingly filled with liberal, feminist supporting, isolationist, dedicated nonviolent, fools, who over reach themselves in their eagerness to spout marxist didactic and socialist dogma. Literally passing it of as unquestionable gosple to our youth. Unquestionable dogma and gosple in our institutions of higher learning!!! The supposed sanctuary of abstract thought and questioning of all things in a non partisan intellectual manner!!!!

Gore did not start this. He has just ridden the wave of the latest psuodo science, throwing millions of dollars around and accelerating the undermining process. But the man Gore is obviously a borderline personality and likely a frightenly narcistic sociopath, and totally unfit to be president.

Bush is no saint, but then again few are. My biggest complaint is that he is a terrible communicator. There have been some notable conservative successes, but he has squandered many other opportunities and negated his promise to conserativism many times. He failed as a fiscal conservative, and seems to be blinded to the growing national concern about illegal immigration. An for a time he seemed to be at a loss as to how to deal with Iraq. At least that crisis has past.

It has been his conservative failings that have led to his low numbers. That combined with the literally treasonous actions by numerous clinton holdovers in the CIA and state department and with the blatently and unconsciencable anti american partisanship exhibited by the news media, means that his legacy will be mixed. He will however gain high marks for having a scandle free administration. Despite blatently partisan and miopic calls for impreachment, he has avoided the calls and perceptions of the many blatent back alley deals from foreign nationals, moral breaches, and massage parlor stench that characterized the clinton years


I predict that history will be kinder to dubya.
Jayg0351  [Member]
2/8/2008 6:46:38 AM EST
I thought Jonh Locke was still LOST on the island.
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:52:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
what the heck does the poll have to do with the post?



I actually thought I had gone back to the forum to post it alone. But since it has had some comments I have left it as it is.

mea culpa.
Walsh
NoVaGator  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 6:54:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
what the heck does the poll have to do with the post?



I actually thought I had gone back to the forum to post it alone. But since it has had some comments I have left it as it is.

mea culpa.
Walsh


no apology necessary....I was just confused.
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 7:02:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Meadowmuffin:
An for a time he seemed to be at a loss as to how to deal with Iraq. At least that crisis has past.


I was fortunate enought to speak with former UN Ambassador John Bolton privately a year ago for close to 10 minutes. I have news for you. The war is in its infancy. Look at the Archbishop of Canterbury stating that Sharia law is inevitable! We are targeted for termination. This war will not end in our children's lifetime unless we lose. You can look for THEIR SURGE once a democrat is elected! We are fighting animals. And when they come here the ACLU defends their rights.

Walsh
dedfella  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 7:27:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
what the heck does the poll have to do with the post?



I actually thought I had gone back to the forum to post it alone. But since it has had some comments I have left it as it is.

mea culpa.
Walsh


ah

ok

that let's me know that you aren't as crazy as I thought and I apologize for my rancorous statements earlier
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 3:15:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Anybody CAN become President. You have to become successful first but you don't have to be born into it.


No, you have to become a whore first. Oh it might not necessarily be a Clinton styled whore, but your good looks, honesty, and ever-lasting integrity isn't going to get checkbooks opened. Oh, and I didn't mean you in that last sentence [long memory] LOL!

Walsh
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 3:18:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By dedfella:

ah
ok
that let's me know that you aren't as crazy as I thought and I apologize for my rancorous statements earlier


Not a problem...thanks!

"So I got that going for me...which is nice!"

Sherrick13 thinks I'm crazy. Does that help at all?

Walsh
myitinaw  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 3:22:32 PM EST
Bush has been an unmitigated disaster
cnatra  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 3:24:16 PM EST



wow, someone here actually read something other than the bible





Kylaer_  [Member]
2/8/2008 3:27:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:

1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law Not met; you may disagree with our laws, but they are still laws, not arbitrary judgements

2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely Not met; the Democrats are proving this by keeping their congress perpetually in session, having one guy show up for five minutes specifically to prevent Bush doing anything during the recess.

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body Not met

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power Not met

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people Not met; the people are certainly being governed. The specific path of said governance can be disagreed with, but there is no anarchy


I don't think conditions are in any way close to those that would be suitable for revolution, and I doubt they ever will be.

Edited: I think Bush has been doing a fair job. There are areas where he could have done better (more vetos of excessive budgets, for one) but people who say he has been all bad are as blind as the people who say he's all good. Very few things are all one or the other, but some people can't seem to see that.
Walsh  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 3:45:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:

Originally Posted By Walsh:

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power Not met

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people Not met; the people are certainly being governed. The specific path of said governance can be disagreed with, but there is no anarchy


I don't think conditions are in any way close to those that would be suitable for revolution, and I doubt they ever will be.


"Ever will be" is a long time. You might find it interesting to know that Germans c. 1900 thought the exact same way. They thought they were the height of civility, enlightment, and a just society. Many didn't escape Germany when they could because they said, in the words of a book I just stated, "It Can't Happen Here" [Sinclair Lewis]. It can and it did!

I think you'd find that Constitutional scholar Mark Levin, if you listened to him regularly, would say that #4 and #5 are on the cusp. He believes we are sinking into a soft tyranny and that foreign nations have a say over our lives. Mexico anyone?

I highly recommend the movie "Border" for a 30 day look at the fact that one could say we are widely no longer a nation of laws when you see the border activities and the refusal of our government to do anything about it.

Walsh
Hydguy  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:05:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:

Originally Posted By Walsh:

1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law Not met; you may disagree with our laws, but they are still laws, not arbitrary judgementsI disagree. Legislating from the bench, based on emotions, not Constitutional law, makes arbitrary will enforced as law. Gun laws for example. or the use of the Interstate Commerce Clause to over rule the right of the people.

2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely Not met; the Democrats are proving this by keeping their congress perpetually in session, having one guy show up for five minutes specifically to prevent Bush doing anything during the recess. Holding up Presidential nominations for appointments because the person is pro-life or pro-gun ring a bell?

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body Not met Trying to toss out absentee ballots of military members ring a bell?

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power Not met The southern border is getting close

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people Not met; the people are certainly being governed. The specific path of said governance can be disagreed with, but there is no anarchy Well, I sure as hell don't trust the government.

I don't think conditions are in any way close to those that would be suitable for revolution, and I doubt they ever will be.

Edited: I think Bush has been doing a fair job. There are areas where he could have done better (more vetos of excessive budgets, for one) but people who say he has been all bad are as blind as the people who say he's all good. Very few things are all one or the other, but some people can't seem to see that.


My thoughts in blue.
MoparMike  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:17:24 PM EST
Hydguy, I think you forgot the UN. Ever since the League of Nations and the World Court our soverignty has slowly dwindled. Not so fast as the average citizen would notice though.
CWDraco  [Member]
2/8/2008 4:22:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:
We have the greatest document ever written in our Constitution (that is trampled daily by our politicians accodring to my speaking one night with WABC's Mark Levin of the Landmark legal Foundation) and the Framers read everything they could to write it. They wanted to know what elements of the past had worked, and what caused nations to fail. The words were not conceived in a vacuum.

So here's John Locke's 5 Criteria for when the people must revolt. How many can you count and how many are on the cusp?

"This list of grievances is carefully fashioned to invoke
the five criteria given by John Locke to demonstrate that a
government is tyrannical and revolution is justified" - "A
History of Freedom", taught by Rufus J, Fears, U of Oklahoma:

1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law- Done
2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely- Close, but not there yet....maybe on the cusp

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body-Done by both rep and dem

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign- Is starting to
power

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people- Its starting to


Walsh

P.S. That course can be seen by searching for "The Great Courses" of which al are taught by the professors most of us which we had. Audio, CD, or DVD, all increasing in cost.
raven  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:26:11 PM EST
6-It puts the lotion on its skin
badfish274  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:31:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Walsh:
1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law No.

2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely No.

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body Did that a long time ago, once.

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power No.

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people Yes. But not for any of the reasons that were given back then.


Walsh

P.S. That course can be seen by searching for "The Great Courses" of which al are taught by the professors most of us which we had. Audio, CD, or DVD, all increasing in cost.
Lazarae  [Member]
2/8/2008 4:32:58 PM EST
I think my generation (I'm 28) is seeing the sophmoric evidence of 1,4, and 5.

1:
Ruby Ridge and Waco.
The fact that the ATF exists. If thats not enough for you, how about the way they change thier rules to tailor fit any high profile arrest or trial they become involved with?
The war on drugs.
Eminent domain being used to steal property from one private party to give to another, to increase property tax base.
Homosexuals and racial minorities lives have become legaly more valuble than the rest of us.
Congress no longer bothers to consult its Constitutional limits when crafting legislation.
( Read article 1 section 8 of the Constitution)
4:
Foriegn investors / goverments own much of our national debt.
The open southern boarder, and our goverments repeated attempts to give amnesty to illegal aliens.
NAFTA, FTAA, The aproaching American Union
Membership in the UN and the fact that we fund about 1/4 of it.
IMF / World Bank loans given to foriegn nations that are forgiven after the CIC is pressured by an Irish rock star.
5:
The Federal Reserve
Social Security
Progressive Income Tax
Oil for food program
The open boarder issue again
FEMA

I don't think that #s 2 or 3 can apply to congress. I think that most of our congressman enjoy paying lip service to the ideas of American freedom and liberty, while at the same continue to push goverment further into our lives. Our congress likes to get paid for keeping the status quo and growing the size of the federal goverment. At this point if the Executive Branch forbid Congress to meet for a year I would relax.

Numbers 2 and 3 could then only apply to state and local elected bodies.
I haven't heard of the feds doing anything to stifle local goverments.

Also technology has made it possible for a represenative in Alaska to immediatley speak to his counterpart in Florida. The days of men traveling in a horse drawn carriage to meet other men from the other side country all in one place and discuss bad ideas is long gone. If the feds realy wanted to stop congress they would have to shut down the electrical grid, jam radio bandwith, and physicaly put surveillance on many people.
Hydguy  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:37:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
Hydguy, I think you forgot the UN. Ever since the League of Nations and the World Court our soverignty has slowly dwindled. Not so fast as the average citizen would notice though.


As a matter of fact, I did over look the UN. THose sorry bastards want to do away with America and make us a 3rd worldcountry. Unless it is time to give money and troops for whatever sorry assed 'peace mission' that could actually result in people dying. Then they need us.
Tromatic  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:38:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
In effect, we do revolt every time we cast a vote in an election to unseat an encumbent.

If you don't like the choices, you're free to run.


To where? Go west? Australia? Alaska? The Frontier? This is it, and it's about to get raped.
pangris  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 4:53:24 PM EST



1- It substitutes arbitrary will for law

2- It hinders the legislative powers from assembling in good
time or from acting freely

3- It alters the mode of electing the legislative body

4- It delivers the people into the jurisdiction of a foreign
power

5- It abandons the trust to govern the people



1. Executive Orders

2. Not yet

3. Not yet - although it takes frikking gobs of money now

4. UNITED NATIONS - coming soon to Clinton or Obama

5. See #4
nightstalker  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:11:01 PM EST
#5
nightstalker  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:15:55 PM EST
Bush did an OK job. Congress has been an unmitigated disaster since before Bush, both the Republican led and Democratic led. Obviously the Dems rank a bit lower, lower than even Bush himself, if you put any stock in polls.

It is hard to believe Republicans squandered such a good opportunity.
machinisttx  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:29:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Bush did an OK job. Congress has been an unmitigated disaster since before Bush, both the Republican led and Democratic led. Obviously the Dems rank a bit lower, lower than even Bush himself, if you put any stock in polls.

It is hard to believe Republicans squandered such a good opportunity.



Not really. No one is holding them accountable. Evidence? Take a look at all the people who are still voting for the letter behind the name, the "lesser" of two evils, etc..
sixgunsblazing  [Team Member]
2/8/2008 5:32:04 PM EST
Read the thread title incorectly :



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