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 Small .380 pocket pistol with DA/SA trigger?
JPN  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 3:34:44 PM EST
Is there a .380acp handgun, currently on the market, that has a DA/SA trigger and is small enough for a pocket holster (about the size of a Keltec .380 or .32, or slightly larger)?
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87GN  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 3:38:47 PM EST
Sig P232, but it is a little large for pocket carry. Still possible.
JPN  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 4:02:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By 87GN:
Sig P232, but it is a little large for pocket carry. Still possible.



Thanks, but I was hoping someone knew of something smaller. My Makarov is about the same dimensions as the P232, so the P232 wouldn't offer a more concealable option than I already have. The FEG PA63 would be a little smaller and lighter, but I'm looking for something a little smaller than that, and in .380acp.
Prep  [Member]
1/21/2009 4:15:55 PM EST
A Bersa Thunder is an excellent small pocket gun and it should fit in a pocket.


Prep
Nowski87  [Member]
1/21/2009 4:49:42 PM EST
try a walther ppk
brentwal  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 5:00:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Prep:
A Bersa Thunder is an excellent small pocket gun and it should fit in a pocket.


Prep


This
BobCole  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 5:24:14 PM EST
One of the older Colt .380 models might fit your bill. They're not exactly cheap these days.......

Check Gunbroker for some pics, there's probably some in there for sale.

Good luck!
JPN  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 7:11:44 PM EST
Sig P232

L/H/W 6.6"/4.7"/1.2" 7 rounds


Bersa Thunder 380 Concealed Carry

L/H/W 6"/4.54"/1.05" 8 rounds


Walther PPK

L/H/W 6.1"/3.8"/.98 6 rounds


Kel-Tec P-3AT

L/H/W 5.2"/3.5"/.77" 6 rounds (but it has a trigger similar to the Glock)



The PPK is the smallest of the three with the desired trigger, but it has the highest suggested retail price.


The Colt .380 is actually what got me started looking into this, but aren't all the Colt .380's single actions like the 1911? And the collectors have really driven the prices up on the out-of-production Colt models. Six or seven years ago, I was looking at Colt .380's and Colt Diamondbacks (the 6" .22 version) at a few gunshows. Money was tight at the time, and the prices seemed a little high, so I passed. A year or so ago, I started looking for them again, but the new pricetags I was seeing on the Diamondbacks (maybe they thought they actually had a Python?) made me give up on finding a Colt that I was willing to pay for.
vaquero357x2  [Member]
1/21/2009 8:46:39 PM EST
Walther PK380?

link

brochure

Looks interesting.
JPN  [Team Member]
1/21/2009 9:03:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By vaquero357x2:
Walther PK380?

link

brochure

Looks interesting.



L/H/W 6.5"/5.2"/1.2"

Not as small as I'm looking for, but it is interesting (mainly because I've got a P-22). I'll have to keep an eye out for one.
survivorman  [Member]
1/22/2009 6:45:47 AM EST
sig showed a new one at shot show....very tiny may be something you want to check out...cant remember the model #
O2BNMUD  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 8:57:23 AM EST
Kahr just came out with a new .380.

It should be plently small enough, but its a DA only.


BobCole  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 9:01:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By JPN:

The Colt .380 is actually what got me started looking into this, but aren't all the Colt .380's single actions like the 1911?



No, there was one model that was a DAO version, I can't recall the name of it. But in short, they didn't make one in a TDA design that you're looking for. I just wanted to throw them out there in case you may not have been aware of them.

My apologies if you already knew all of this.

I would look at either a Sig, Bersa or Walther, IMO. The Walther PPK is a bit smaller than their PPK/S model, FWIW.

jestertoo  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 9:26:19 AM EST
delete
jestertoo  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 9:26:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By Nowski87:
try a walther ppk




This +2
JPN  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 2:46:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By JPN:

The Colt .380 is actually what got me started looking into this, but aren't all the Colt .380's single actions like the 1911?



No, there was one model that was a DAO version, I can't recall the name of it. But in short, they didn't make one in a TDA design that you're looking for. I just wanted to throw them out there in case you may not have been aware of them.

My apologies if you already knew all of this.

I would look at either a Sig, Bersa or Walther, IMO. The Walther PPK is a bit smaller than their PPK/S model, FWIW.



No apology necessary. If I had heard of the DAO version, I don't remember it. Unfortunately for me, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a DAO, multiple targets, and a timer on me. Slow fire at a normal range session, I don't do too bad with a DAO, but I think I would have trouble convincing an attacker to be patient and stand still while I took careful aim.

With a single action or DA/SA, I actually surprised the heck out of myself when I first tried shooting them against the clock at multiple targets. I avoid single actions for carry use, due to personal preference and a tendancy for some of them to be less friendly toward left-handed shooting. I don't like the Glock trigger (I have carried a Kel-tec P-3AT in a pocket holster, but I never liked the trigger), so that leaves me with DA/SA as the action that works for me, for a carry gun.

The PPK seems to be the smallest that fits the specs, but the price is higher than I'd want to pay for a pocket gun.

Bersa has the lowest price, but they seem to have made an odd (to me) choice in the design of their 'concealed carry' .380 version. It has a shorter barrel and overall length than their standard .380, but they gave it a longer grip and larger capacity mag than their standard .380 version. On the spec sheet, the standard .380 is taller, but it looks like that's due to the extended finger rest on the baseplate of the mag. The mag baseplate could be swapped for a flat one, reducing the height of the standard .380, but it would still be .625" longer than the 'concealed carry' version.


ETA: The more I look at the numbers, the more expensive it looks to get something a little smaller (but with ammo easier to find) than the Makarov I already have. My best option may be to order a replacement safety lever and slide release for the Makarov, shave them down to reduce width (might be able to get it down to 1"), and wait to see if one of the manufacturers decides to make something smaller than what is currently available.

scool  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 3:10:30 PM EST
Colt Pony was the DAO model. Had that and the pocket late mustang. Both Very nice.
niceguymr  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 4:38:41 PM EST
I don't know if any of these fit your criteria but there are a few new pocket .380 coming to market.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=10&t=70324&page=1#bottom
JPN  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 5:25:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By niceguymr:
I don't know if any of these fit your criteria but there are a few new pocket .380 coming to market.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=10&t=70324&page=1#bottom



Am I wrong, or is the new Sig a near copy of the Colt Mustang??


Sig P238

L/H/W 5.5"/3.96"/? 6 round magazine, single action trigger


If it has an ambi safety, I might just have to reconsider using a single action as a carry gun.

Robertesq1  [Life Member]
1/22/2009 5:33:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By JPN:
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By JPN:

The Colt .380 is actually what got me started looking into this, but aren't all the Colt .380's single actions like the 1911?



No, there was one model that was a DAO version, I can't recall the name of it. But in short, they didn't make one in a TDA design that you're looking for. I just wanted to throw them out there in case you may not have been aware of them.

My apologies if you already knew all of this.

I would look at either a Sig, Bersa or Walther, IMO. The Walther PPK is a bit smaller than their PPK/S model, FWIW.



No apology necessary. If I had heard of the DAO version, I don't remember it. Unfortunately for me, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a DAO, multiple targets, and a timer on me. Slow fire at a normal range session, I don't do too bad with a DAO, but I think I would have trouble convincing an attacker to be patient and stand still while I took careful aim.

With a single action or DA/SA, I actually surprised the heck out of myself when I first tried shooting them against the clock at multiple targets. I avoid single actions for carry use, due to personal preference and a tendancy for some of them to be less friendly toward left-handed shooting. I don't like the Glock trigger (I have carried a Kel-tec P-3AT in a pocket holster, but I never liked the trigger), so that leaves me with DA/SA as the action that works for me, for a carry gun.

The PPK seems to be the smallest that fits the specs, but the price is higher than I'd want to pay for a pocket gun.

Bersa has the lowest price, but they seem to have made an odd (to me) choice in the design of their 'concealed carry' .380 version. It has a shorter barrel and overall length than their standard .380, but they gave it a longer grip and larger capacity mag than their standard .380 version. On the spec sheet, the standard .380 is taller, but it looks like that's due to the extended finger rest on the baseplate of the mag. The mag baseplate could be swapped for a flat one, reducing the height of the standard .380, but it would still be .625" longer than the 'concealed carry' version.


ETA: The more I look at the numbers, the more expensive it looks to get something a little smaller (but with ammo easier to find) than the Makarov I already have. My best option may be to order a replacement safety lever and slide release for the Makarov, shave them down to reduce width (might be able to get it down to 1"), and wait to see if one of the manufacturers decides to make something smaller than what is currently available.




my colt .380 DA Pony:


MissouriBob  [Team Member]
1/22/2009 5:38:08 PM EST
I've been looking at North American Arms Guardian.

thread
BobCole  [Team Member]
1/23/2009 10:00:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

I've been looking at North American Arms Guardian.




I started to mention that, but the OP wanted a SA option for accuracy issues.

GummyBear1  [Member]
1/23/2009 11:18:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By 87GN:
Sig P232, but it is a little large for pocket carry. Still possible.



Iwas going to recommend Sig 230. I'm obviously older than you...
JPN  [Team Member]
1/23/2009 2:51:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

I've been looking at North American Arms Guardian.




I started to mention that, but the OP wanted a SA option for accuracy issues.




Yep. I set up five targets (paper plates taped to cardboard boxes) at various ranges under ten yards. I then used two ten round magazines, and tried to put two rounds into each target, change mags, then two more rounds into each target, doing it as quickly as I could (timed). This was with a DAO pistol with a trigger pull around 8 pounds. I managed to get one round from each mag into a target. Other than those two rounds, the only things hitting the target was the dirt and grass thrown up by the bullets hitting the dirt in front of the target.

That was after a lot of slow fire practice with that DAO pistol, trying to get used to the trigger.

I then repeated the test with my 1911 and my Makarov (hammer down for the first shot), using two 8 round mags for each and four targets. I was surprised at how well I grouped the shots on the targets, but I did put one shot an inch or so outside the target (hitting the box, not the dirt) with each gun (at least I'm consistent).

The mag change was the biggest time killer with each of the three guns, but especially with the Makarov and it's awkward mag catch.


As I previously stated, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a DAO, unless there's no pressure and I've got all the time in the world to make the shot.

MissouriBob  [Team Member]
1/23/2009 3:37:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

I've been looking at North American Arms Guardian.




I started to mention that, but the OP wanted a SA option for accuracy issues.



True, I overlooked that. It does have a heavy pull - 10lbs. The Kel-Tec P32 is only about 5lbs which isn't that much.
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